Jonathan Brander is COO of Upvest, working every day to make investing accessible to broader parts of society. In this conversation with Oliver Brügmann, he explains why Germany lags so far behind internationally, what that has to do with our history and our relationship to risk, and why it will take courage and education to change that.

Jonathan also speaks openly about spending over a decade in traditional banking, coming close to burnout more than once, and how conversations with and concern from his own children pushed him to fundamentally change his relationship to work.

In the end, the conversation turns to practical questions: how to start investing with very little money, why staying invested long-term almost always beats trying to time the perfect entry point, and how Jonathan teaches his own kids about finance.

In this conversation we discuss:

- why far too few Germans invest compared to other countries, and how much money sits unused as a result

- the gap that opens up as early as school when it comes to understanding investing

- what the US does structurally differently in how it approaches risk

- why we need to become bolder as a society, and how cheaper access and education can help

- why "time in the market" beats "timing the market" in the long run

- why Jonathan left traditional banking for a fintech

- how he came close to burnout more than once, and how conversations with and concern from his kids changed his relationship to work

- how he teaches his own children about money

Timestamps:

00:00 — Intro

01:00 — Welcome and the central bank's return-inequality data

02:30 — Why only 6.8% of Germans are invested in stocks

05:00 — Lack of financial knowledge as the biggest barrier

09:00 — The historical roots of German loss aversion

15:00 — What countries like the US do differently

25:00 — Why banks have become so risk-averse

35:00 — The move from banking to fintech

40:00 — How close Jonathan came to burnout, more than once

44:00 — What changed in his leadership since then

50:00 — Investing more boldly: what it actually takes

56:00 — How Jonathan teaches his kids about money

58:00 — The most important advice: just start, even with 10 euros